UPDATE: Kate Zimmer's recent project, Estee Lauder's Sensuous is featured on the cover of the March 14th Women's Wear Daily.
Take a look at the article here.
Once again, Stunt Casting returns with the gracious and ever-so-caustic Kate Zimmer, as she sits down with Darwyn Cooke's this-isn't-just-for-the-money, really, Justice League: New Frontier Special. This interview was conducted at the Factual Opinion's satellite offices in Manhattan, under the auspice of some of the worst house music that's ever existed, and a cultured amount of alcohol was involved on the part of the interviewee. Your interviewer, as always, was the unnamed Factual moderator, and he/she was cold ass sober. What follows is that combination, plus Post Its, Darwyn Cooke, Bruce Wayne, Justice League's New Frontier, and why love is a chumps way out.
Kate Zimmer: Do you like all my notes?
The Factual Opinion: I do like all your notes! I'm kind of excited about the fact that you have that many notes.
Zimmer: [Laughing] I keep trying to imagine what the people in Starbucks were thinking. I went to Starbucks and was between a guy who was obviously writing a screenplay and two people who were on break from an office job, and I was reading a comic book and putting Post-It notes all over it.
They Get Into Her Personal Life
TFO: Very serious. What sort of experience do you have with comic books?
Zimmer: Almost none. I used to watch the Batman comic series after school with my brothers. I have four brothers who read a lot of comics, and I would check them out once in awhile--but I was a girl, and not that into them.
TFO: The animated series from about 10-15 years ago?
Zimmer: Yes, it would have to be, because I was around ten years old. I think it was called the Dark Knight series.
TFO: Did you know that there was a connection to the writer of this comic when you picked it?
Zimmer: No. Not at all.
TFO: Oh. Well, that was sort of how he got his start. He was an animation guy for them. I think so. I don't really know the story, but that was how he got his start, that Batman show. [She does not care, but kindly listens anyway.] Do you remember what your brothers read?
Zimmer: I don't remember, no. Like this [Justice League] has a really simple cover and I remember that their's had...you know, they were like the novels. They were really thick and would have really intense illustrations on the cover and they usually involved something being undead. Or something like that.
TFO: So it was horror? Were there super-heroes, or stuff like that?
Zimmer: No. It was horror.
They Get Into The Super-Hero Talk
TFO: You were quick to select this against all the others, and it seemed like you picked it based on the fact that it was the "Justice League." [Editors note: When Kate picked her comic, she looked at all available and then went "Oh! The Justice League! That one."]
Zimmer: [Laughing] Totally!
TFO: Why that one above all the others available?
Zimmer: Because there wasn't a lot of information on the cover and I got to guess what was on the inside. So it was "Justice League" and I figured that is an old-timey name, like a throwback to the 30's, but they'll be battling crime in the modern era. I don't know--did that translate? And I really liked "Justice League."
TFO: Were you looking for something that was tied into super-heroes or where you just looking for whatever, just any cover?
Zimmer: I assume all comics are tied into super-heroes. Even like the one about the guy who is undead and goes around fighting crime. I mean, like there's the one, American Splendor, but even that guy is a hero, right?
TFO: He's just old.
Zimmer: But he's the hero of the story.
TFO: Well, he's the protagonist.
Zimmer: And he can fly?
TFO: No, he can't fly.
Zimmer: Harvey Pekar can't fly?
TFO: No, he can't.
Zimmer: Fuck you.
TFO: [Uncomfortably long pause to see if she is actually angry.] They have ones that are about people having serious problems dating, and about elderly people having Alzheimer's.
Zimmer: Oh god, I'd rather see people flying.
Back On Task/Topic
Zimmer: You know this gun on the front actually attracted me, and I was a little disappointed that it never showed up.
TFO: Yeah. That comes up every time we do one of these interviews, because there is always something on the cover that never shows up in the comic. I think that's Adam Strange. I mean, you can't tell, but I'm pretty sure that's Adam Strange. He is an intergalactic stud. He was sent to a faraway planet because the men there couldn't procreate.
Zimmer: So he dates aliens?
TFO: Well, he's married to one. They all look exactly like human beings. He's got some wife that he makes babies with. And he wears a helmet.
Zimmer: Are all the babies sterile, like when you cross a horse with a donkey?
TFO: Actually, the most "mature" thing they did was just that: that he was the stud. They never explained the actual genetic outlay that occurred after the procreation. That's usually the way it works--there's an idea, but they're not going to follow it through. What did you think of that opening page, with it's explanation of 52 earths?
Zimmer: It was great, because I thought it was going to deliver! Especially with the racoon-skin cap, which, even before I started to read, made me go "Oh, this is totally great." He's got a floating bubble, he's a got a coon-skin cap, he's listening to the Hi-Fi with this chick...but I don't know. It was a little wordy to explain what they were doing.
TFO: How did you feel about the anthology style construction of the comic? Did certain stories stand out as opposed to others? Did you feel there was a thematic continuity to the three stories?
Zimmer: No. Well...no. Well, I really thought it would be the modern day, with just these people thrown into it, and how they would deal with it. But it all just takes place back in the 40's. So that was a bit disappointing, but I guess that's what ties it together. I found the story at the end to be...actually, I just skimmed that last one.
TFO: The Black Canary and Wonder Woman?
Zimmer: Yes, and Gloria Steinem at the end? Is that who that is? "Whatcha writin' there Gloria?"
TFO: Probably is. Would you have preferred more of a focus? I don't know why I wrote that question.
Zimmer: Well, I expected it to be one story. I didn't realize it was going to be three short stories. I got to the end of the first story and was all, "Eh. Wha? Did..." My question would be: Is this how the whole comic works? Is it these three stories every time and you're just supposed to pick up on each one, each time you read it, or is it just these little tidbits?
If You Keep Count, This Is The Second Of Many Pointless Ramblings From The Interviewer
TFO: I don't know that this comic is ever going to continue. Basically, there was a mini-series that was called New Frontier, and it was about this time period and all of those heroes. It was incredibly successful. New Frontier did so well that Warner Brothers, who owns DC, decided to make a straight to DVD movie of it. This...well, it depends on how cynical you are. Optimistically, this exists because Cooke was inspired to write more stories--cynically, and probably more honestly, it's an advertisement for a DVD that came out last week. That's why that stuff [DVD information] is in the back pages. It exists because that DVD is out there for sale. The original thing was a full-fledged story--it had an interconnection. It wasn't separate stories like this. I don't even know that they are going to have more issues of this comic.
Zimmer: Okay. It's a little strange that it's just three stories, and they all seem to be picked up in the middle of some bigger story. They end, but there's obviously something that's still supposed to happen, which I guess is picked up in the DVD?
TFO: Well, how connected they're going to be is up in the air. This ending passage right here was one panel in the actual New Frontier comic itself. [Editors Note: Referring to a newspaper clipping of Batman and Superman fighting.]
The Second, Possibly Fourth, Sign That The Interviewer Should Be More Professional
TFO: What age of reader...you know, I don't even care about this question.
Zimmer: The age of reason?
TFO: What is the age of reason? No, alright. What age of reader would you imagine is most attracted to this comic?
Zimmer: I would put it as someone older. Someone who read these back in the day. I imagine a precocious fifteen-sixteen year old might get into this. One who also wears a smoking jacket.
TFO: And he drinks whiskey out of a flask?
Zimmer: Yes. "I don't do whippets."
Professionalism Returns!
TFO: What did you think of the art?
Zimmer: I liked the art. I liked the art very much--this page though, with these really shitty cups? That made me sad. Those are Bruce Wayne's mugs? They look like that? That's ridiculous. Beyond that, I loved all of this, just because of it totally made me believe it was one of these throw-back comics. I liked the switch from black and white...I wish I knew more about sequential art to be able to comment on it. All this is good. Well, this last one--I couldn't even look at it.
TFO: Well, the last one [Editors Note: Kate is referring to the J. Bone Wonder Woman story] was done by somebody else.
Zimmer: Well, yeah! You can tell, in this first page! Wonder Woman has...I don't know. What is...she's got Popeye's arms here!
TFO: I think that guys normally an inker.
Zimmer: Gotcha.
TFO: Wait, go back for a second. Bad story? [Editors Note: Kate's Post-It note to the second story featuring Robin and Kid Flash, simply says, "BAD STORY."]
Zimmer: Yep. Bad Story. Why is Robin fighting these hot-rodders? Then the Flash shows up, and they figure out that the hot-rodders are Communists? Maybe I was just skimming the end or something, but it just seemed a little disjointed. And then this one [The Wonder Woman story] I just couldn't read it. But the first one, I liked that one a lot.
TFO: Well, the first one is Darwyn, completley by himself. In control of everything.
The Interviewer Moves Beyond His Pay Grade
TFO: Okay, this question is totally going to try to be a shoehorn. Working in the design and creative field, what's your take on the work presented here, from a technical standpoint? How professional does it appear to you, that sort of thing?
Zimmer: Well, it is its own genre, so I don't know if I could say how professional it appears. [Withering look of contempt.] Working as a designer, what we were always taught was very important...I don't do this anymore because I do bottles now...is information architecture, which is how you break down the information. Which is SO important in these, because the reader is trying to follow the flow. It actually took me a while to catch on that these text boxes were thoughts in their heads--the squares as opposed to the bubbles, and then trying to figure out who was actually speaking. Then I was....wait a minute...oh, so he's more pissed, so that's got to be Batman--it took me a while to pick up on that. Mount Rushmore looks nice here.
The Interview Showcases A Lack Of Research And Knowledge, She Pulls The Save
TFO: On a follow up to that, you'd already mentioned this, but what about the usage of color? Could you tell that this was for the most part--let's see if it's all--well, for the most part these [comic books] are computer colored. It's done in the same way...you know, Photoshop, those type of programs. Some people don't like it, some people don't care. Here, it is an attempt to make it look like the old-time comics.
Zimmer: Oh, because you can fake halftone patterns and stuff like that? Were all these done on computer, or just this first story?
TFO: It's difficult for me to tell, they don't like to advertise it. You know, it's usually easiest to tell when they have somebody handling the colors that's listed as a company. I don't know much about it, honestly. This has got to be a computer.
Zimmer: Well, yes, those backgrounds all look like they were generated in Photoshop. I would assume that if you're doing it through Photoshop, then you have more control over the color--especially in something like this first story, where you have all these monochromatic images. The explosions...this part, where he is going into the Batcave and it's supposed to be much darker--that's beautiful. I have no idea what it would be like if you were doing this on press and you were trying to manually adjust that color. I like it.
TFO: Have you ever had to work with this sort of art before?
Zimmer: No, it's not something we do around here. I went to a school with a lot of kids who were really into sequential art--I went to art school, so there were kids who were illustration majors, focused on sequential art. There's a really great professor who teaches a sequential art course, the history of it--so I'm familiar with the mania of it. How crazy how people are about sequential art. But beyond that, again, I have almost no experience with it.
The Post It Notes Begin
TFO: Did anything about the experience of reading this surprise you?
Zimmer: [Laughing] Well, let me go back and look at my notes.
TFO: Yeah, that's where were going next, because we've got to deal with these Post-It notes.
Zimmer: Yes, we need to deal with the Post-Its, because those were my immediate, "What the fuck? Shit!" reactions. Okay, so it's all old-timey, with the language...it's almost like you could make up what you think it's going to be without even reading it. To a certain extent, no, it wasn't surprising. The only thing that surprised me was that Robin was out on his own. He was fighting crime in his spare time. He's not hanging out with these young guys, trying to be friends with them--even though he's a teenager, and they're teenagers. Instead he's going to go "bust" them which seemed kind of dorky. Is he a nerd?
TFO: He's a narc.
Zimmer: OK. Fair enough. He thinks he's going to hook up with this chick, which seems unlikely. Also, this guy looks like Peter DeLuise. [Editors Note: Yes, the guy from 21 Jump Street, Yes, he does.]
TFO: Oh yeah, he does! In other drawings of him, he looks like he's about 40 years old.
Zimmer: Well apparently he's a communist terrorist, so he's got to have a little experience.
TFO: It's funny you mention that, because Dick Grayson does eventually become quite the ladies man.
Zimmer: Like what, after college. Wait, does he go to college? Does Batman pay for him to go to college?
TFO: They had a whole period where Robin went to college, and they had a whole lot of weird stuff going on. I've never read them, but I've read about them. Batman goes through a mid-life crisis and moves out of the manor, gets an apartment on his own in the middle of Gotham City--Robin is off at college, dating a lot.
Zimmer: Doesn't Batman date a lot? He's out clubbing in this one.
TFO: No, Dick Grayson dated a lot too. He got into a serious relationship with a 6 foot 5 alien...who looks female. But is really tall.
Zimmer: As long as it looks female.
TFO: She had orange skin. Or green? Different colors.
Zimmer: Was she "passing?" Did she say she was from Florida State or something?
TFO: No, she was clearly an alien. An alien super-model. The 70's were a great time for "who gives a shit, none of this matters."
Zimmer: Hey, Barbie did a lot of stuff in the 70's too. She was a doctor, and a lawyer.
TFO: Then they got to the 80's and they just killed everybody. They killed Robin...
Zimmer: They killed Robin?
TFO: The second one. They killed him with a call-in vote, back in the 1-900 days.
Zimmer: Well, i'm glad he got to date.
TFO: Naa, he was the second one. He didn't date, died as a kid.
Zimmer: So things just don't end up well for the sidekick. Is that a general theme for the sidekick? The sidekick just gets thrown around a lot?
Controversial Statements About Female Comic Characters! Nevermind.
TFO: Yeah, they got a whole thing with women too. There's a whole meme about it, something called Women In Refrigerators.
Zimmer: Oh, yeah, I think they address that in this last comic. Bruce Wayne does some goofy "nyer-nyer" all uncomfortable because he's at the strip club and he runs out of there.
TFO: It's argued that women are predominately used to amplify--you know, kill the girlfriend so that the man can be motivated to do stuff. Rape, those sort of things.
Zimmer: Really? Rape?
TFO: Implied rape. Well, in some cases they had--well, a couple of years ago they had what I guess you'd call "on-panel" rape. Some super-heroes non-powered normal wife. It was done basically just to...
Zimmer: Just to do it?
TFO: Just to have all the heroes get really mad. So everybody would get worried about Lois Lane.
Zimmer: I don't think I care.
Back To Post It Notes!
TFO: What else we got in these Post It notes? There's a lot of them.
Zimmer: Yes, there are. I was supposed to sit down and edit them before I sat down with you.
TFO: You were going to edit them? Before your interview about a comic book with Gloria Steinem?
Zimmer: This one was just my question because I had to go back to re-read the beginning to understand why the President wanted to take out Batman, and apparently it's because a reporter died? Which I don't really buy...that the President has one super-hero that's on call to deal with the rest of them.
TFO: The classic thing with Superman is that he's a...slave to the powers that be. That's something he's always criticized....[Thankfully, we moved on]
Zimmer: Why do they call him Kal? Is that his Krypton name?
TFO: Kal-el. Yep.
Zimmer: Fair enough. Where does Wonder Woman come from at the end? Here. She just appears? I was really bothered by that. At the beginning, they're at this little conference, and she walks out. Then, they [Batman & Superman] have this incredible fight, whatever, it seems like Superman is about to bite it, and then she just shows up again?
TFO: That's comics for you. Just their way to get around. I mean--Wonder Woman has powers too, so maybe she could hear them fighting, maybe she was following them the whole time.
Zimmer: Oh, and the cave was lead-lined?
TFO: Well, that's true too. Batman did lead-line the cave.
Zimmer: Let's see the rest of these bad boys. Oh, this "For an Amazon, there is no greater deed than overcoming anger and conflict with love." Doesn't she kick ass? Mainly?
TFO: She's supposed to?
Zimmer: What, is she a mediator?
TFO: No. She's supposed to be like a warrior queen.
Zimmer: Then...Why? Why would she want to overcome conflict with love? Whatever.
TFO: Possibly an attempt to shoehorn in a moral?
Zimmer: Okay, this one we talked about. But why does he [Batman] have such shitty cups if he's a billionaire? That just doesn't follow. Oh, and the headlines on the Daily Planet are as shitty as the New York Post. "Not So Super?" The second story--which again, I don't remember as much. The first story, I remember, but the second story...not so much. And the third story, I didn't even bother to really read. BUT. I did like that the Flash decided to get back at them by writing "Uncool" in fire. [Laughing] That's when I decided that it was a bad story. I didn't like that Bruce Wayne lost his shit [in the third story], because he's supposed to be so smooth and tortured!
TFO: And part of him being Bruce Wayne is him being a cocky playboy.
Zimmer: Exactly!
TFO: Not only he should he be at a strip club, but he should be an asshole about being at a strip club.
Zimmer: He should be such an asshole that Wonder Woman becomes interested, and then she pursues him.
TFO: They did have a short period where they dated, but nobody ever references it anymore. In 1999? It didn't take.
Zimmer: The third story was as if Diablo Cody wrote a super-hero story. This is what it would be like. That's the end of my Post-Its. It's not a lot, actually.
TFO: How do you want to close this out?
Zimmer: Well. I would actually--even though I said I didn't like the three short stories--I was kind of intrigued by the Batman/Superman getting together. "Justice League." Now I get it. So I would read more of that story. The last one--I don't care what Wonder Woman is doing. Hanging out at strip clubs? Clearly she has better things to do. She's an Amazon.
TFO: It's a joke that got stretched too long. It's really facile.
Zimmer: Yes. Definitely. And they should really bring that lazer gun into the series.
-At 1 am, the day before Halloween 1980, Marcia Zimmer went into labor, delivering her only daughter by herself, on a bathroom floor. Although she will not admit to dropping the newborn, her 4th child, onto her head, all signs point to the fact that Zimmer was in fact, damaged from day 1.
As the only girl in a house full of boys, Zimmer strode to set her self apart. Spending her youth as an itinerant trombone player, baton twirler, game show champion, journalist (gateway regional high school's Gator Gazette) and philanthropist, she eventually landed at the place where precocity and creativity go to die : art school. After incurring upwards of $ 20,000 in debt to learn such valuable skills as "you can dress your roommate in your clothes and send your conceptual sculpture class drunk and earn an A", she landed at a New York creative agency where she has focused the past 5 years on packaging and bottle design.
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