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2008.11.10

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You raise some interesting points, but I guess the first question that pops into my head would be - don't kids know when they're being specifically targeted, and aren't kids always into things that seem, at least on the surface, to be aimed at older audiences? I worked with kids for a few years myself and the 8-year olds wanted to be ten, the 10-Year olds wanted to be 15 and the 15-year olds wanted to be 21. Anything that even slightly smacked of "age appropriateness" - whatever that age was - was immediately shunned, to the point where ten year old kids refuse to watch Spongebob because "it's for babies". This is part of the conventional wisdom (flawed or not) behind the historic lack of success for the mainstream super-hero publishers' kids initiatives: kids know when they're getting the watered-down version of the "real thing". They want the "real thing", even if the real thing is grade-A shit. (Whenever they'd go on about 50 Cent or whatever G-Unit wannabe they loved this week I'd joke with them that they should be listening to Raffi at their age. They never got the joke.)

So what's the age group for this comic? Is it young enough not to care that it isn't "cool" to read Power Pack? At what age do kids stop wanting to identify with age-appropriate material and start pretending to be older? At what point do adults lose touch with the fact that what seems to be fun and interesting from an adult perspective is hopelessly square to a kid? I'm asking these questions because I honestly don't know, and working with kids for three years didn't do a lot in the way of illuminating these issues for me.

I read the comment first before the article, but the comment from Tim misses one very important point: kids like *good* stuff. I'm not going to argue that 50 Cent and G-Unit has any artistic merit, but while 50 Cent was in his prime, he was making good pop music that lots of people - kids and adults - both liked.

Kids will always pick age appropriate *good* material over "mature" *good* material; that's why the Jonas Brothers are making a fortune, why American Idol is a money maker, why Harry Potter is a money maker. Hell, it's why Bone - an *excellent* age appropriate book - sells like gangbusters with kids.

I haven't read Wolverine/ Power Pack and in my experience, Power Pack stories (outside of Runaways) aren't usually very good, but Nina's point is exactly right. Writing *good* material that any kid can read and understand is difficult. It's when kids are given garbage that's all soft and sweet and free of violence, profanity, and sex that they're turned off. No one wants to read garbage, not even kids, and dressing garbage up for kids is just an insult to them.

Nina – good column, as always. I haven’t seen this Power Pack, and the idea of a superhero comic that does not center on graphic dismemberment does seem like something that could fill a glaring hole in the marketplace.

I do agree with Tim, though, that kids want access to the older stuff – it ain’t the 17-year-olds keeping “Seventeen” in business, I’m guessin’. Assuming that magazine IS still in business. Something I dislike when I see the “Marvel Adventures” and kiddiefied DC books is how they all look like TV cartoons, and seem to have no attempt at engaging the reader the way a younger me was engaged by the comics of my youth. I came back month to month to follow the characters. Peter Parker’s struggles, the soap opera mania of early Claremont X-Men and Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans. To the kid I was, those books felt like they were dealing with young adults in an adult world (plus, you know, giant robots), yet were totally accessible to me, and that’s what was interesting to me (besides the robots) – the world I was growing into and the friendships, romances, responsibilities and freedoms therein.

Of course, if something like Wolverine/Power Pack (should the Power kids be hanging out with Wolverine, anyway? “I’m the best there is at what I do, and what I do … is babysit.”) serves as a gateway drug for The Next Generation of readers, their next stop, at age 12, is probably Unshaven Batman boinking Slutty Black Canary on the dog-gutted corpse of Wendy and/or Marvin, or whatever. Or “Invincible.” Thank jeebus for “Invincible.”

Marc Sumerak and GuriHiru have been doing really solid Power Pack series for a couple of years now, I think. They've all walked that fine line between kiddy pandering and fun comics that make kiddy titles so fun.

I'm 24, so I'm clearly out of the target age range, but I've found that most of the Power Pack series are twice as fun as your average comic for grownups. The last one they did was a Secret Invasion send-up that had a few good gags. At its hearts was a simple evil twin story, but the jokes were smart and the action was fun.

Gurihiru's art rules, too. I love that style.

My seven year-old son LOVES the Sumerak GuriHiru Power Pack comics.

But the Marvel Adventures comics are supposedly targeted at the same audience, and he doesn't love those nearly as much. You should try one of those sometime and see what you think.

yes.
comics can also be for kids.
something that seemed to get almost forgotton in the sordid grunting frown of the 90s.
however:
Smooth lines and mildly drawn monsters might appeal to some kids but they never particularily floated my boat.
what's the point of a monster that doesn't bring on nightmares? it's a bit like making sure any sex scenes are just too repugnant to be appreciated erotically.
illustrators i (and many many others) liked were people like Mike McMahon and Kevin O'Neill when i was 8-12 (about the same age as the rest of their target audience), and before that, Leo Baxendale and Ken Reid. when i was very young i liked Arthur Rackham, along with generations of children before me.
those artists are not about the smooth anodine negation of physical reality. but then, i wasn't born completely blind to natural forms and no-one around me really celebrated the candy-coated commercial cookie-cutter produce that some silly bigoted adults think kids should like and only the most creepily acquiscant youngsters are happy to go along with.
as a child i was particularily interested in things that i didn't completely understand, as long as most of it was entertaining.
same as now...
all you need for a kids book is to leave out the swearing, sex and drugs etc so that the parents don't confiscate it, comic creators compulsively patronise their audiences quite enough already.
don't they?

yes.
comics can also be for kids.
something that seemed to get almost forgotton in the sordid grunting frown of the 90s.
however:
Smooth lines and mildly drawn monsters might appeal to some kids but they never particularily floated my boat.
what's the point of a monster that doesn't bring on nightmares? it's a bit like making sure any sex scenes are just too repugnant to be appreciated erotically.
illustrators i (and many many others) liked were people like Mike McMahon and Kevin O'Neill when i was 8-12 (about the same age as the rest of their target audience), and before that, Leo Baxendale and Ken Reid. when i was very young i liked Arthur Rackham, along with generations of children before me.
those artists are not about the smooth anodine negation of physical reality. but then, i wasn't born completely blind to natural forms and no-one around me really celebrated the candy-coated commercial cookie-cutter produce that some silly bigoted adults think kids should like and only the most creepily acquiscant youngsters are happy to go along with.
as a child i was particularily interested in things that i didn't completely understand, as long as most of it was entertaining.
same as now...
all you need for a kids book is to leave out the swearing, sex and drugs etc so that the parents don't confiscate it, comic creators compulsively patronise their audiences quite enough already.
don't they?

Echo...

Hi everyone -- Sorry for the delay in response...its's been a busy week.
You all raise interesting points. It's true that kids always want to be interested and a part of things just "above" them. I mean, I think that's universal. Whether is in relation to comic books, other kids or the world at large. We are all always striving to be a part of that other group, the one that's just out of our grasp. And it's a neccessity. I think that social drive is what pushes us to grow. I have a 15-month-old in one of my classes who's not walking yet (a skill that usually emerges between 10 and 12 months). He hasn't had too. He lives with his parent who cuddle him (has no siblings) and then leave him with the Nanny who carries him everywhere. Now that he's around other children who are standing and walking, he's showing an interest and desire to do the same.
So, I think it's inherent in all of us. And therefore its just inherent in our writing when we write for kids. If one, though, is not regularly around the age group they write for, they will miss the mark. They'll over-think it. The over-thinking of the target creates an over-simplification. And The over-thinking the target for only capitalistic gain, rather than the mission of trying to write something of value for children to enjoy, will surely miss the mark.

This comic will definitely appeal to the child who's just learning to read (5or 6 years old -- age depending on where you live), up to, I'd say @ 9 or 10. But notice that the age range of the kids in this comic is up to @ 14-ish (I think).

Kids do know when they are being patronized, as you all know. Kids no when you're lying to them. Kids know when you're using them. But they appreciate when you're sincerely trying to interest them.

I don't find this comic patronizing or contrived. I think its directed at children to entertain them.

Disney films in general do well because of the "universal truth's" or ideals that run through them. That's why those films stories can appeal to all of us. I mean, I realize the average 40 year old man won't take himself to see "Finding Nemo." But he also won't be completely bored to tears while watching it with his son. There's some humor and resonance for everyone, since "Finding your Place in the world" is relevant to us all.

I think though, that maybe some Universal Truths are changing. Or rather, the way that we deal with them. Sort of. Like, although we all really hope and want to believe that Love conquers all, and that Good always triumphs over evil, we live in a world that is actually quite unjust. Love may not actually conquer all, but it makes everything the hard things easier to tolerate and is my preferred choice. Good doesn't always conquer evil....but I like to hope it will. But the more universal truth these days is that Evil is out there, how are we going to live with it? Who are we going to be in the face of it?

And, isn't that what comic books deal with? The more realistic Universal Truths, the New Truths of today's world. And giving kids a place to read and think about them, without it being hyper-realistic is pretty fantastic. So, in this book, I think they get to experience the realities of childhood -- school, tests, museums, family -- and the bigger scarier things like "evil", and live vicariously through these characters who use their gifts to defeat evil -- with the help of a grown-up. : Er, grown-up-mutant. ;)

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